The Sales Transformation Podcast

#172 – Best of Sales Frequency May–July 2025
===

George: Hi everyone. George here, the editor of the Sales Transformation Podcast. If you've been following Consalia on LinkedIn, you might have caught one of our sales frequency LinkedIn live broadcasts over the past few months, which take a look at some of the big topics for sales that have been in the news recently.

Well, sales frequency is taking a break for the summer, so we thought now would be a great time to revisit some of the highlights from the show so far. Will and Jesus will be back in September for more episodes of sales frequency. So make sure you keep an eye on the Consalia LinkedIn page for episode announcements.

In the meantime, enjoy the clips.

​

Will: Bobby, I just wanted to sort of move the conversation a bit to, you know, when, when, um, you are implementing a new technology into an organization, um, how do you address the kind of cultural challenges? Um. That, you know, some, some organizations face when they're trying to implement a new, new technology.

Um, BCG, for example, found that cultural resistant, not tech failure is the top reason that adoption fails. Um, and I guess my question is around. What is the right approach then? How can, yeah. How can leaders support the adoption of technology for their wider teams? I'm just wondering if you could unpack that a little bit.

Bobby: Yeah, and it is, again, a really good question. So just recognizing most tech, um, you bring into an organization is to looking at creating some operational efficiency, um, making the lives easier of some people that are working within that organization or give, giving more insights. And by doing that, there can be some resistance.

First of all. People like doing things the way that they've done them historically. Um, so there'll be that. And then secondly, people can be frightened of tech taking away their job. Um, but you also have to recognize that, um. Tech is always going to evolve and organizations will always evolve. And therefore, it's not about taking away jobs, it's about repurposing and making pe uh, people focus on the key elements that are gonna grow a business.

So you take away administration burden or you take away, um, building out insights utilizing ai, but that means. People can then do other things as implement the changes or whatever it may be. So it's bringing everybody along that journey. So if you look at different hierarchies within an organization, you have C-level people within an organization that have an overview of what they want to achieve, and they have a vision.

It's about disseminating that vision and creating that cultural change and change management throughout that, that process. Um, there's also another aspect that. A lot of, um, change that will happen within an organization. Decisions are made by people that it doesn't always just affect them or their teams.

It goes much wider and it's about understanding how wide that new tech is going to. Deliver, be delivered within an organization and who it's going to affect and bringing everybody along that journey. So just as an example, um, we were selling into a very large, uh, banking organization in one, in one of our deals.

And we had to, um, recognizing that change management and before they took that. Before they bought the solution, they recognized that from a hierarchical perspective that this is the one that's going to work, but it wouldn't work unless everybody was on board. They had 300 and 300 plus managing directors in the business across the globe, and they had to bring every single one of those along that journey and disseminate that information to those people, and it made our sales jobs a little bit more.

Intensive, but it also made it much simpler as we went through the process. So we recognized what was necessary and then for the decision to buy the solution became much easier as we went through that process rather than it being, there being a few unknowns and people, um, um, disrupting that sales process.

So we were able to have everybody on board.

​

Will: I think I just wanted to pick up very quickly on what Miguel said and put this in the sort of sense of what's happening in the world.

Where there is so much uncertainty, with the US trade tariffs and Brexit since Brexit, the UK has arguably been fairly isolated. And, the fact that although it's quite controversial to have this sort of mini Brexit reset, the fact that, trading organizations, uk, EU. For example, UK US are having conversations and are managing to, unlock kind of trade barriers as a really positive thing.

I certainly is a positive thing for the uk and it does link to the sales mindsets. for those that are listening, Consalia, based on, a piece of doctoral research a number of years ago, have identified four key sales mindsets that customers look for, which I think are quite relevant when you look at it from a macro and a micro level, they're client centricity proactive creativity tactful audacity, and authenticity. And when we, when we look, when we speak to clients, about these four sales mindsets, we often say, client centricity and authenticity are the two that you really need in order to establish trust. when you are engaging with a client.

And, but where the magic happens, where you can co-create value and and really unlock the larger opportunities is when you are starting to behave in a way that is tactfully audacious and proactive. proactively creative. So that gives you a sense of the mindsets.

​

Will: Miguel, just, um, just a quick question. Do you feel now that we've had this sort of. Reset sort of deal with the EU that, um, trust is quickly going to be built up between, you know, say the, the Spanish and the uk, uh, trading relationship, or, or do you think this is gonna take time or what's your. Yeah.

What's your opinion on this?

Miguel: You know, one of the, uh, I don't know, like Jesus surly will agree with me. One of the things we say in Spain about the British, or one of the good things we say about the, the British in Spain is that they are very practical people. So, uh, for many of us in the, in the kind of international relationship was shocking.

What happened about Brexit and the red lines, they, they set up. But you can see slowly how the, you know, the waters get calmed down. The, where they're looking for, uh, you know, common sense and make easier for, for everybody. And hopefully, uh, the agreement they announce on Monday, they, they, the lines of work, they, they want to, uh, you know, start or they, they, they want to develop.

Uh, they seem all very, very practical. I mean, the defense agreement or to be able for British companies to participate in the safe. Uh, project of European Union, it's very, very important. Uh, UK manufacturers of weapons are, is very important industry. Uh, if they need to access to this kind of big bag of money only by themselves, without this institutional support, it will have been very difficult for the sales teams, because means you need to do a lot of.

You know, uh, documentation, certifications, et cetera, uh, like this is like, uh, you know, they make it easier for you to score the goal. ​

Jesus: we hear very, a lot of times that, uh, we want more activity, we want more calls, right? Activity is easy to measure, right.

But, uh, leaders confuse activity many times with capability. I'm, I'm thinking about one, um, small history I have, which is, uh, we were. In one of the last telecos in Europe. I will just, not to mention talking to the strategy, uh, the VP of a strategy for the whole region and, uh, the strategy team we're focused on ah, we have the data.

We have the data, and, and, and I. And, um, the VP of strategy said, well, okay, you have the data, but the important thing is not to have the data. It's what you do with the data. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. It is the same thing. It's not to have the calls, it's what you do with the calls, right? Mm-hmm. So if, if someone makes a hundred calls, it feels like progress, but that's not development.

It's the illusion of development. So we need to, we need to really have a, a very, a very much understanding of what is the proposed and what are the next steps to get to the goal. Because the goal is not to make the goal. Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there is this one, uh, you, you said, I don't need mindsets.

Talks, uh, I need someone to teach me how to get past gatekeepers and close deals. Wow. Yeah. Uh, why does that mindset continue to dominate? What do you think?

Eddie: Uh, it's a very interesting one. Um, it's one that, you know, I think just see it in one, one forum. I saw it in multiple comments, um, across the board. Um, but to answer your question.

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not too sure. I think it's, it is probably a symptom of a lot of variables there. Um, there's, you know, stuff around short-termism, you know, perhaps a lack of patience, um, lack of care, maybe even pressures from, like those in the higher ups of the company. Um, but it's, it's really interesting as well, because it's not just one thing that I've read on.

Online. And, um, you know, that's what, that's what, uh, that's, that's shaped my belief. It's, it's a lot of what we also hear within the cohorts that we run. Um, a lot of salespeoples kind of have that same mentality towards, um, selling. They just, they just wanna get it done right. But I think what we learn, especially in the master's program is, um, when you.

When you don't start with mindset, you know, you don't start at the core of the values and beliefs, um, area. You kind of end up like I, like I mentioned earlier, falling into. The bad habits. Right? And essentially not selling to customers in a way that they actually want to be sold to, which is what our, our CEO Philip Squire talks about regularly.

You know, it's, it's essentially why the MSC we, you know, that we, that we have, you know, we always start from the perspective of the individual itself, because. When you understand yourself, uh, you know, you develop the, the kind of self-awareness that you need in order to recognize when you're not operating from a, a healthy client-centric kind of place.

And, um, ultimately, you know how to course correct when you, when you slip up. And I think when you are in the midst of trying to close deals and you really want the, you know, the signature on, on the dotted line, it's, it's easy to. To want to get into the mode of, you know, maybe lacking a bit of patience, but, um, you've really got to know how the customer wants to be sold to, and, you know, effectively that's going to, uh, increase the relationship for the long term.

​

Will: do you think private sector sales will become longer and more complex?

Jesus: Well, they are long already, right? they're not, like a quick thing. But I believe that the companies facing this, they have to look more in the mid and long term. and some companies, to be honest, will be ready for that.

Some others not. I do believe there is something on, on the mindset that the sellers and not just the sellers, right? Also the, their finance teams, their management teams, they will have to have, because, at the end, many of the new projects will require to navigate some uncertainty in the next years, right?

So I believe that, yeah, that I'm not sure if long is the word. I would say more cautious about how you structure the deal, how you try to protect your first year, your second year rather than. Yeah, probably it will take a little bit longer, but you will maybe try to get some quick wins because, you have to encompass everything, all the business with the politicals political situation, right?

So the government has announced this, but in a, very little time, new elections are coming and then they have to demonstrate and then, so it's, a kind of a balance, right?

​

Will: it's about value for money. And, it is so important for sales professionals to understand how they add value to the, organisations that they're engaging with.

value needs to be central to every conversation. And Jesus you mentioned, something, that resonates and there something that kind of, we're picking up a lot of just in conversation with clients and also within the news. you mentioned the investment in ai, for example. it's about value.

It is also about efficiency and execution. how do we enable clients to be more productive essentially, to unlock value. Consalia does that through training, but AI does that on a different scale. And, and so I think that's what, yeah, I think that's what, one of the impacts is gonna be.

so value is one I. I also think there's, this uncertainty that we've mentioned, we should be useful by, now to be Yeah. Environment. I mean, when has it been certain, I mean the last, I can't remember when has this, maybe you can tell me in your career, when do you feel like the last kind of stable, uh, sort of economic situation has been?

But in my career, it's always been slightly dodgy.

Jesus: Yeah, I think it's not sta stable is not the wall, the word, maybe the word is that from, uh, bumps. The, the new new one, bump to the other one was maybe more time. Mm-hmm. And now it is like, uh, it looks like every week it's a bump, but it's where we live, so, and it's gonna be more frequent.

So, yeah.

Will: So we should be, I mean, from my point of view, I. Getting to a point where we should be used to this by now. Um, we should be used to being agile. We've been talking about how sales organisations need to be agile since, for as long as I've certainly been at Consalia but I do think that the world is shifting and that, and this uncertain world is.

Is really predominant. and the impact of that is risk aversion. Yeah. Has to be, clients need to wait and see how the dust settles before they make big investment, decisions. and risk aversion can mean, delaying, delaying budgets for investment on certain tools or in training or whatever.

but it also might mean. Where they wanna stick to who they know, they're trusted suppliers. they, don't want to, take risk on a new, on, on something new unless I would assume, unless they are showing value in a way that someone can't, that's the competitive edge.

​

Will: I feel like there's different levels of, agency as it were, of how, Of how AI can be incorporated. I think today certainly how I'm using AI is, I'm, using it as a, as an assistant to complete tasks that are driven by myself.

it is still very much a human led approach. And, it's my decision as in when I want to use AI to complete various tasks and hoping that they will, they'll increase my, productivity. But I think the, with the future And what we're you see so much in the news about is, the at what point AI.

Replaces that kind of, those human touch points has us, and I think there's different, there's, there's a different scale that organizations might be using it. and I'm just wondering, I, I'm just wonder keen to gather your thoughts on, that. Is that, a way we should be approaching.

The implementation of AI into, teams and how they adopt ai. how can we, how do we take someone on this evolution, in terms of using AI and how they can embed it in their work practices?

Jesus: Yeah, that's a very good question. And it doesn't have as usual, uh, single answer, right? Because it, it depends on all the, all different, different organizations, different cultures, different technology stacks.

Sometimes you'll have like, you know, a commitment with, uh, some technology stack for a number of years. So, uh, embedding a new technology, which maybe overlaps or even substitute some part of the process is something that is not easy, right? But what is true is that. We see a huge investment in AI in many fronts, right?

It's not just about, so you see, of course, the, the most media ones, uh, media impact ones like, uh, meta, meta, uh, buying, uh, scale AI for, I dunno, $14 billion, something like that. But then you find out that scale AI was the engine training the. Pt, uh, from open AI and, and, and, and copilots, et cetera, et cetera.

So we need to understand all these navigations, right? Because, uh, at the end, many people is taking, uh, a move. Many people is investing huge amount of money. When I'm talking about huge amount of money, I talk about billions of, of pounds, right? In, in, uh, in the industry. Um, so, so, so the. So much, so much information.

So many people's doing some things with ai when, when a team comes and say, okay, we need to adopt ai, and sometimes we ask customers and you know, yeah, we have ai and they say, well, we use copilot to write, uh, to, to review some, some emails. Okay, that's fine. But that's probably what. Many people are starting to do and, and, yeah, but, but, but there are other companies that are more advanced that are, uh, connecting to, uh, new software with new platforms, or they are developing insight as well.

We see some of the customers developing some AI agents connected to their, uh, private content, uh, for specific tasks, right? Mm-hmm. So I believe that the answer is not unique. It depends on, on, on, on your industry, on your, uh, cultural team, on, on, you know, many on or your sales, uh, stack. So it, it depends on, on, on many, many things, right?

What I believe is that, um, this is a journey, right? So I don't see this technology making a substitution of the sales professionals, right? I see it more as an augmentation. The problem is where you start from. Do you start from just copilot or just, uh, may, uh, introduce some ai, uh, features that maybe your CRM provider is starting to use.

But then you see that your CRM provider has been in the market for 20, 30 years or has some legacy. And then you see newcomers that are born AI and are really, uh, exponentially. Growing and, and, and, and creating better outcomes, right? Yeah. So it's not an easy, it's not an easy answer, and I think, um, every company has to do its own complete assessment.

And as you said, uh, AI advanced very quickly. So what is true and right today, maybe in three or six months is not, is not true or right.

​

Jesus: let's start at the macro level, Santiago. So you know that any kind of technology normally follows a high maturity curve, right? yeah. While AI is still in earlier stages, what are the AI ecosystems doing well right now? Because some things are not good yet.

Some things are almost PhD level, some people say, so what, are AI ecosystems doing right now for sales teams and customer engagement? What do you think?

Santiago: I think in two things. The first, I think, ai, is creating an environment where sales team can interact with potential customers that already received information so you can focus your efforts.

on qualified leads, so just imagine for a second that you have an AI agent that can receive calls or chats. receive, maybe some first approaches, for, from potential customers and the AI is able to decide. Decide if, from the psychology front, from the psychology layers, the person is ready to make a decision, the person is ready to take an action.

Or if it is just looking for information so you can focus your effort, really on those kind of people that are ready to. To set a new, agent, to set up a new capability rather than maybe talk a lot of, times with, people just looking for basic information. For the first layers.

Information I. About your product. I think it, this one is the first one and the second one is, creating a 24 7 capability where customers, current customers can receive self service information and solutions so you can, as a sales person. Dedicate your time to bring new customers to and to take customer care to the next level.

Because basic information, basic, tasks such as, Hey, where's my invoice? Where's my NDA, I can find whatever document it is. we'll waste your time. when you are looking for new customers, when you are looking for really. Big problems rather than, running after an NDA.

Will: Yeah. And, uh, Santiago, what about the limitations as you see it today?

where do you see companies overestimating ai or placing too much faith in what it can deliver?

Santiago: I think we have now, like mixed informations. I think you are receiving information about, I don't know, hallucination problems. I don't know, ai, making up some information, but you are not, really, investing your time.

In under, to understand the potential of ai. So I think it's a little bit of, un maturity, I have to say, from the companies. maybe a kind of fear to make the first step. and the solution for that is to create a, a comprehensive, environment where you can test some agents. Or test some AI capabilities in general not to mess up all, all of, or a lot of things inside your company.

And, you can be. Quite sure about their real capabilities and the, limitations, but I think it's a mixture of immaturity and lack of information in some points.

​

Will: I guess that there's lots of different types of coaching that one can do, and so I'm, there's life coaching, there's professional coaching, et cetera, et cetera. And what we're talking about today is, professional coaching around the context of sales.

I think the. The really important point around this as a, as someone who is doing the coaching, is that it's a mindset, and it's, it is not a meeting. So when you enter into that coaching conversation, you are entering it with a type of mindset. And it really is about showing up, creating a psychological safe zone, being really curious.

And to ask, asking the right questions, like very reflective questions, not directive. And that I think that can be quite challenging. I certainly had it at times when I've been coached and I've also been the coachee. when as a manager, you feel, you have the answer and you can just tell your coachee Yeah.

And, try doing it this way. This has achieved results. But it's, not that it's, it's about enabling your coachee to come up with their right, with the, right answers.

Jesus: You're completely right, will, I think there is a balance, right? If you think about, okay, you, you normally, sometimes are, the leader of this person, so you know the answer. So you can advise him, you can mentor him, but on the other side you have the coaching option.

Maybe people say, then just give the, we give the answer and that's it. But, a coaching way is not giving any answer at all. It's helping them to discover the answer. And this is, very much. Much more powerful than the other way, because if you give, it's like in ai, right? If you ask AI to give your response and you don't work on that, or you don't think about that, your brain is not working.

So you are not facing the challenge. You're just relying on a technology or relying on a manager, right? As we are saying in coaching, you don't rely, you just are asked the right questions. For you discovering the, challenge and the, solution. And by doing that, the coachee lends a new technique that he can apply himself.

Yeah. In the future to talk to, to tackle, to new situations. So you are not teaching how to do something. You're teaching how to discover. And open the doors of entire new world that sometimes will not be opened through other, mentor, advisory, et cetera. Absolutely.

Will: And I, think that's where the, magic happens, right?

when you are the coachee and all of a sudden you are, you unlock their thinking. And you mentioned about AI and things like this, but coaching conversations should encourage a level of reflection that they end up. They end up problem solving for themselves. and I think the impact of that for the coachee is really profound.

because it, you are empowering your coachee to, to problem solve, but then also to, come up with a action plan to solve whatever challenges they might be needing coaching on. So it gives them a lot more accountability. I. As well. And, that, I think that over time helps build confidence and you're developing those problem solving skills.

and these, are all things that, enable ownership and responsibility in their functions. And, going back to the original question, Heus, I think, this is a re this can address motivation. When you are, providing someone with their own, with accountability and empowering them to make mistakes or try new things out, to reflect on something to then move ahead, if these are, yeah, these are really great motivating factors, but, I do wanna add, when you are, coaching, you've gotta be authentic and you've gotta be consistent. And what I mean by that is without authenticity and consistency, it is very difficult to, enable trust in the coaching conversation.

And I think trust is such a critical element between the coachee and the coach. mentioned before that psychological safety, these are really important components to have a, a really good. Coaching conversation.

Jesus: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's very important, right? To generate trust from the beginning.

Explain properly to the coachee. What is coaching about? That is a coaching contract. There are some, it's a safe space, right? and, you can, from there start to generate a trust that you're required to go through. These doors and open the doors, right? That, otherwise they will not even open themselves.

I believe that coaching is, something that people sometimes don't know exactly what is coaching about and, and, sometimes they enter into a coaching. Process without, let's try, I don't know. What is that? And if your coaching is doing, done properly, I mean with, with active listening.

So it's more about listen, not talk. People love to talk, leaders love to talk and say, we need to do it this way, It's more about shut up and listen. Listen to whatever, the coachee has to say. And listen and be non-directive. So make the right questions, to make him think.

The best thing in a coaching session, in a coaching session for me is when you. You trigger with the right question and then the coachee starts to

Pause and start to think something on top and say, okay, he's thinking deep on this.

​

Will: that is something else I wanted to touch on upon, which is the being aware of the emotional impact that change can have. Yeah. So you know, the, this model is, I guess for organizational development. But as a leader, you really need to understand the emotional response of change that people can have.

And you know, there's other things that we need to be highly conscious of, such as the Sarah Curve, you know, how do individuals respond to change? And I know I'm going off a little bit on the tangent, but I just wanted to, to mention that, um, briefly, because, you know, that is really important, how people respond to change and how you need to adapt, you know, sometimes at an emotional level in order to bring them with you.

Um, but the eight steps will change. Model can really help you do that. And it can, it can help you, you know. Audit where your change initiative might be stuck. Um, and it helps you work around plans to kind of overcoming those obs obstacles, um, without sort of overwhelming your teams who might be going through an awful lot of change anyway.

Yeah. Um, and it translates into each step translates. You know, into, into a language that should, uh, resonate with your team. You know, going back to what you were saying, for instance, HEZ, it's like, look, this is happening. What's the purpose of it? What's the urgency? How quickly do we need to adapt? Um, and bringing people with you.

Um, so yeah, it gives a roadmap when things can feel messy. Yeah. Yeah. I think too, a lot of times change happens to you. It, you know, this is a good structure for when you recognize that you need to implement a change. Um. Is like, is tearing up that initiative rather than just, you know, uh, switching on the tap and going straight into implementation.

Jesus: Yeah. Yeah.

Will: Um, which is really important. Yeah.

Jesus: Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, when, when we talk about fatigue and, uh, changes, I'm thinking, and we are talking about purpose, right? I'm thinking that probably if we are able to make. The sales professionals, participants of the design of the change, of the purpose of the change.

This is when the purpose has to be explained to be participants in the, in the, in the, in the, in the design, in the definition, right? So of course, you cannot get all the sales people to be participant to, to, to a new, uh, change or uh, design. But this participation means that you'll have to explain the purpose and.

Get somehow a kind of an agreement on the purpose, right? So that's, that's, that's maybe one first piece of, of advice. The second one is more connected to the communication. So if you change, you need to communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate before the change, communicate during the change, communicate after the change.

And it's not just a communication to all the audience is maybe one-to-one. You need to understand this because. You can have champions or fast followers as you mentioned, but you can have stoppers or fast stoppers, which are, you know, stopping all the, all the, all the, all the engine to work. So you need to detect these points very quickly and communicate and get them.

In the, in the circle of confidence as some of the very nice movies were saying. Right. My circle of confidence. So my golden circle. So I think we are, we are, we are coming to an end. Uh, will, uh, I think we've, uh, given some, uh, of the tools that we've been using in module two, um, I think the key takeaways.

Might be, maybe that change fatigue is not about too much. Change is maybe not a, is about not enough meaning connected to this purpose. So when, when you have a ose, when you communicate the ose, and when people understand the purpo and bind to the ose, then the change, I don't say it's given, but it's, it's easier or it's, it's smoother, right?

Mm-hmm. Uh, another takeaway maybe is that the salespeople thrive when. When giving clarity, coaching and, and, and voice. No. Uh, um, which as we say, it's, it's about this participation with the voice, right? It's, it's clarity and participation. Um, I think there is another one, which might be, um, that the real leadership is about mindset and not micromanagement.

​

Jesus: we did a, a small analysis, uh, two or few months ago about the average time that people is moving from one role to another role, or from one company to another company.

And, uh, we did an industry analysis as well, but we found out that, I mean, average time is like two years, 2.5 years. Maybe three. But you know, it's like, so that's, that's, that's, that's very quick. Right. So in two years of people has this mentality, I need to be successful, I need to be changing to a new role.

Or if not, I go to another company in two years time. Right. Particularly in the UK market, I should say. Of course, I'm, I'm a span and I know all the markets, uh, how they operate. Spain, Germany, I've worked in other markets as well, but UK is quite of this mentality and, um. And, and, and by that then retention.

It's very complicated, right? So because people has the mentality of thinking about moving in two years, if he doesn't get the, the outcome, or even if he gets the outcomes or the, or the results, right? So there is, there, there is, there is a big play on culture, on retention. You know, it's beyond the incentives, it beyond the economic, the money, right?

It's beyond all the things. So I do believe this is one of the major. Problems because many times when a professional goes out of your company, well might be going to the competitor. So we've, we've been seeing recently, uh, some software as a service companies, uh, working in the uk. Yesterday I was talking to, to a friend that worked in one of the major software service companies.

And, and he, he recognized that, you know, that. Some sales professionals are moving out of the company because they were not hitting the targets, but not just themselves, but the company, right? Because maybe they don't have the right strategy. Well, in the last 5, 6, 7 years, they were just growing two digits every, every year.

So things are changing very fast and professionals have this mentality to move quickly. So when you are a leader, uh, the most important thing is people technology can sort it out. If you have money, you have time processes, you can sort it out. You can sort everything but people, and managing people and retaining people and motivating people is the most difficult.

The most difficult task, I think for a leader, I don't mind. I don't mind if it's sales or if it's operations or it's whatever. I mean, it's super important in sales because the, the human element, the relationship between the buyer and the seller is so strong. You know, people important is even better. It's even higher, right?

So. So, yeah, this is, this is one of the, um, of the major, uh, challenges that the leaders have. I had the pleasure to attend one of the national sales conferences a couple of weeks ago. Uh, uh, great sessions on ai. They had, and, and we had a lady coming from, um, from a company that, um, her main. Objective is to help companies to define and design incentives in a wide perspective, right?

So it's not just the economic ones, but the non-tangible ones, like patches, like recognitions, like all many other things. And it's so important that we take care of all these things together because of course there is a communication element as we discuss. There is a strategy if the full company's going well or not, but then the person is gonna be thinking of the company, but thinking as well on.

Or herself right on how everything affects. And if, if in this kind of a process that they have in their head, if in two years time they do the question, I'm okay. In this company, I'm, I have still room to grow. I have a good education path. Uh, I'm a, I'm a relevant, uh, and recognized all these things are things that are all the time.

Sales professionals head, no matter if they hit the target or not. And I think the leaders have to understand, appreciate, and work, uh, quite, quite hard on to, to, to, to get a cohesive team and, and continue continually, uh, you know, um, having this emotional intelligence that is required to really, um, face these challenges.

Well, yeah, I don't know if,

Will: yeah, and I, I think I was just, as you were speaking, I think, you know what? I go back to this balancing short-term targets with long-term objectives and, I, think the pressures that, leader sales leaders need to, to hit. Performance targets, and unlock the potential of their teams, to get the short term wins.

But, the question, at what cost, at what cost does, is that to your organization and, for team morale as well? I think, And the other thing you mentioned, Jesus, which is really important, which is around understanding, aligning, aligning strategic values with, with expectations from your team and ensuring that those can be delivered consistently is a really important factor and that feeds into sort of developing sales career paths.

As well. so not just looking at it from a leadership lens, but from, those who might be frontline sales managers, what's the next step, for them as well? Where does their career head and can they, develop into future leaders from within these organizations to create, a a, culture that is really.

that one has a kind of longer term vision. I think for us, as us, we quite often see, certainly through our engagements that yeah, top performing salespeople get promoted into leadership positions. and yet they quickly realized that. To be a leader requires a completely different skills from, from, being excellent at, as a, at sales as a individual contributor, ​